The Scoreboard - Final Tally

Having worn out their welcome at prominent message boards and other sites, members of the "idiot free zone" moved onto Usenet news groups which, for the most part, is unmoderated. One can google the leader's name and still read about the sordid mess created on that venue.

In case you missed it the first time around:

"Usenet is a worldwide network of newsgroups (also called forums or message boards) covering an estimated 40,000 (and growing) different topics. Users can post anything they care to, and often do so anonymously.

The sexually explicit content on Usenet newsgroups is often more extreme than that on adult-oriented Web sites.Moreover, sexually explicit Usenet newsgroups are conduits for advertising adult-oriented Web sites and can provide their users with a mechanism to swap sexually explicit material. Some Internet service providers carry a full line of Usenet newsgroups."

http://tinyurl.com/phfh4

I do not know what insatiable appetite prompts individuals to invade forums and browbeat in perpetuity. That type of ruffian behavior certainly isn’t related to anything intellectual or informative. I suspect the conduct is in direct proportion to a critically deficient level of maturity. In fact, most articles addressing "cyberbullies" are geared toward the adolescent population.

From a NYTimes article:

"The technology, which allows its users to inflict pain without being forced to see its effect, also seems to incite a deeper level of meanness. Psychologists say the distance between bully and victim on the Internet is leading to an unprecedented - and often unintentional - degree of brutality, especially when combined with a typical adolescent's lack of impulse control and underdeveloped empathy skills."

We have now seen this dynamic show up in adult interaction as well. The only difference I can determine is that teenagers tend to contain their bullying tactics among their peers. Somehow I don’t see them combing genealogy sites, posting bounties, rifling through tax documents, criminal records, or threatening to divulge detrimental information about their victim’s relatives.

Those who have been on the receiving end of this type of intimidation may have survived the earthquake, but the aftershocks are exhausting.

The Scoreboard - Part 7

Awww. I can't believe Plumpkin Fan has already been banned from PTV!! She was on a roll. I'll have to reincarnate. -Posted by loretta at September 10, 2004 09:45 PM

In fact, I don't really like this name, so I think I'll get myself banned pretty soon. I want to come back as a Plumpkin name! Watch how fast I can get banned! -Posted by loretta at September 10, 2004 11:55 PM

You can start here: LINK
I'm having a little fun with the "Quote" option...so far, nobody has noticed how I altered IJFA's idiotic posts to reflect her real self. -Posted by loretta at September 11, 2004 12:09 AM

Oh goody. I finally got Poofed as "Gnot an NG" so I can come back as a plumpkin again! -Posted by loretta at September 11, 2004 12:30 PM

Loretta, I could use a fake addy please.. -Posted by Utahgirl (lifesafunnything.blogspot.com) at September 11, 2004 01:09 PM

You know, Loretta, I'm proud to be included with you in this challenge! I know you are a thorn in thei side: I am only a paper cut! -posted by vero (ronnisrants.blogspot.com) at September 11, 2004 01:12 PM

Utahgirl, I sent you an erzatz e-mail for registering. If and when you get thrown out, I can always create more. -Posted by loretta at September 11, 2004 01:14 PM

This is an excellent email site www.emailservice.com The have reg.s that you pay for and one that is free You can create 15 alias on one email addy another one www.mail.com -Posted by Ponder at September 11, 2004 01:20 PM

So, what thread are we on over there? I'm in! -Posted by vero (ronnisrants.blogspot.com) at September 11, 2004 01:41 PM

ah suppoze ah should finally registah ovah theyah. -Posted by Rose at September 11, 2004 01:42 PM

We have nothing to lose. We can organize a jihad on the BSers and invade with sensible, reasonable, factual logic, truth and light. It will make them nuts. Totally crazy. They'll start frothing and spinning. Especially if there are six or seven or eight of us (including some who are already there on a regular basis and are known by me to be readers) and there are only a few of them. That's the best. Take particular care to debunk that nasty, lying fraud, Injustice4All, and if you can stomach it (which i can't) do your best to point out Tara's witless, drunken stupors. -Posted by loretta at September 11, 2004 01:53 PM

Agent 009 reporting for duty. -Posted by Lesa at September 11, 2004 01:54 PM

Why are they coming over here and harassing us for the mere expression of opinion on CTV boards? I've been bashed over there for expressing opinions. I figure it's part of the deal. If a person is bold enough to post over there, they expect to get blasted by those who disagree, right? -Posted by vero (ronnisrants.blogspot.com at September 11, 2004 03:51 PM

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'd be happy to join in, Ponder, but I need a Secret Posting Gal nic, because I used mine up. HELP anyone with a nic they aren't using! Thank you! -Posted by loretta at November 15, 2004 07:16 PM

They deleted all of my extras, Loretta. CW explained in an email that they put in a program to eliminate multiple nics from the same IP's. Since I'm not on AOL, I'm easy to spot. (It's not like I was "trolling", but I didn't have two extra nics, the one I'm using now that I had forgotten all about and another that I used to join the TAI thing and then ended up not using either. My "misfitbarbara" got eliminated in the purge.) -Posted by Barbara at November 15, 2004 07:21 PM

I have no active nics at the moment. I'll try to see if I can create one for awhile. At least through the night. I had a great nic last night that went POOF. -Posted by loretta at November 15, 2004 07:23 PM

ARGGGGGGG ... LOL ... I only have one because of this stupid IP thing. -Posted by Ponder at November 15, 2004 07:23 PM

Oh good heavens Ponder! If I had a nic I'd join you over there. Although I probably wouldn't be of much use. I'm mostly sitting here shaking my head, speechless at the fact that these people are running around loose. I'm cheering you on from the sidelines though. -Posted by Utahgirl (lifesafunnything.blogspot.com) at November 15, 2004 07:38 PM

Ok, I'm in. Let's just say that none of the PTV posters are bridge players, obviously. I had my pick of all the nics I wanted in that category. I chose a very good bid. Heh -Posted by loretta at November 15, 2004 07:42 PM

Barbara, just when you think they can't get any stooopider, they get stoopider. ROLF MAO over here. -Posted by loretta at November 15, 2004 08:14 PM

Hee Hee...NG eh? not this ole gal....I just decided to save my other nic for drastic measures so I jumped in nekkid and unashamed....But it's so boring....about as stimulating as being fed oatmeal with a manure shovel...... -Posted by Grandmaboo at November 15, 2004 09:15 PM

I figured if I jumped in with all my 70 yo sags and bags I'd scare them into some sort of repartee....nope. -Posted by Grandmaboo at November 15, 2004 09:24 PM

Well I got banned for defending your honor Lo. LOL Can someone go check if Designer5 is banned. I can't find her in the members -Posted by Ponder at November 15, 2004 11:04 PM

Just curious Lo...my post about being banned at CTV was poofed...am I banned here too? Was I saying something offensive? -Posted by Grandmaboo at November 15, 2004 11:40 PM

No, G-Boo. I think that was a spy trying to find out how we get our SPG nics. Don't use your real nic over there. You got banned by association. There are those over there who will tattle on us as soon as they figure out our nics. -Posted by loretta at November 15, 2004 11:46 PM

Okey dokey luvs...... :-} -Posted by Grandmaboo at November 15, 2004 11:49 PM

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If anyone has a nick on CTV they aren't using, I would appreciate a new hat. I didn't even violate any TOS and I get banned, so perhaps a nick that's been around awhile would be better than "new" ones. -Posted by lorettaat April 8, 2005 11:03 AM

Thanks to a couple of donors. I have (2) Secret Posting Gal nicks for CTV. I can't promise they won't get destroyed in the mission, because I don't violate any TOS and I still get banned. They may be "kamakazi" nicks. Your martyrdom is greatly appreciated. -Posted by loretta at April 8, 2005 11:35 AM

I was summarily banned at CTV again, -Posted by loretta at April 8, 2005 01:15 PM

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And that's the way it was at the "idiot free zone"!

Say, isn't Grandmaboo a spry old girl? Imagine jumping in nekkid at her age in the middle of November? Brrrrrrr! I bet all the little Boo kids think she’s a fun Granny!

Note: The bugler in the picture is playing Taps.

Day is done, gone the sun,
From Websleuths, Court TV,
TAI.
And you know, we will go...
Banned and proud!


Good night, luvs!

The Scoreboard - Part 6

A brief glance at the thread titles inaugurated by Celestrill II, make her visits to Websleuths look like self-promoting tours. She had a blook to peddle, books to critique, and inside scoops that were always good for attention away from the “idiot free zone”. One of the exclusives she was anxious to share at the WS forum concerned the boat that was parked at Mark Geragos’ newly acquired office building in Redwood City during the Peterson trial.

11-09-2004, 10:28 PM - Celestrill II
Reported a little bit ago on KPIX: Geragos just bought a law office building in RWD and in the parking lot reporter Simon Perez found an identical Gamefisher boat containing life preserver and several similar anchors w/rebars on top. But as it turns out....The Gamefisher was released to MG, it's Scott's boat. Not a new one.

11-09-2004, 10:31 PM – lisafremont
According to Greta, that's not Scott's boat.

11-09-2004, 10:35 PM - Celestrill II
I heard on good authority that it is, in fact, Scott's boat.
Who are you gonna believe, Greta or me? heh!

11-09-2004, 10:40 PM - Celestrill II
I heard it was Peterson's boat. At first we thought it was a similar boat, but then I got a phone call from a LE person who said it was Peterson's. Stranger things have happened in this trial. Why would Geragos have a boat just like it parked behind his building?

11-10-2004, 09:13 AM - Celestrill II
Ok, well now I got a big apology E-mail from the person who called me and said the boat was Peterson's.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
08-27-2005, 02:08 PM – Celestrill II
I have been given permission to post some of the information I received. I have a very unusual blog and many people involved in murder investigations, missing person cases, or other cases e-mail me or contact me with inside information. I have a good reputation for posting accurate information and for being very sympathetic toward young women, and not being very sympathetic toward abusive men.

Therefore, a lot of people (Cindy Lynch's friend, Laci's neighbors, Gene Ralston, Adam Falcon's father, Vicki Lynn's relatives, DAs in California, Private Investigators in Kentucky, lawyers, Nancy MacDuckston's friend, and many others - including Julie Popovich's friend) have contacted me with the scoop. Believe it or not, I don't really care if you think I'm making this stuff up. I assure you, I have plenty more. Meanwhile, you can stay tuned for the real story, or think that the media is telling you the truth. (eyeroll)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
January 2006: Websleuths issued a warning cautioning its membership that Loretta Serrano uses a program called readnotify.com. Unsuspecting recipients that open emails from Loretta could be sending their personal location information to her through that program. Loretta's response?:

From: "RetzQ" on Sun, Jan 1 2006 11:49 am
"If I knew your name, I would be addressing you with it right now. I didn't bluff about that. I will address any Mutt I see here or anywhere else (even Websleuths, because I am back in there, too), with your real names.

"And, it's one thing to be banned by someone with a vague grasp of the English language and mediocre communication skills (like Coldwater), it's another to be banned by a retarded mouth-breather.

Tybee is an ignorant, white trash twit, and anyone who would let her moderate so much as the toilet paper stock is out of their minds. If she could type one sentence without a glaring spelling error, I'd faint dead away.Did she even graduate from 8th grade? Not in Pleasantville. My 4th grader is more articulate and a better writer. -.Posted by: loretta at January 2, 2006 01:01 PM

“I see Tybee decided to adopt a sanitized and abbreviated version of my insult as her tagline: tybee204 uneducated white trash twit that couldnt Moderate toilet paper. However, as usual, she can't even get it right. It's ignorant, white-trash twit...and why she capitalizes "moderate" is anyone's guess. You have to be short a few million brain cells to comprehend her methods, I guess. Here she suggests that she uses the pages of books as toilet paper (from the now infamous Loretta/Celestrill thread in the Parking Lot): I thunk white trash means we use book pages for turlet paper . I rightfully unnerstand why she she might not want me moderatin turlet paper. Now, this might be amusing if Tybee actually read books; instead, it is not really too far from the truth.” - Posted by: loretta at January 2, 2006 03:47 PM

July 2006: Excerpts from a WS memoir:

"She was bitingly cruel to me, actually threatened me twice in emails. Her temper was awful and her words quick to chastize. So I kept those emails for over 1 1/2 years, catching cyber dust. And when I got my new 'puter in May, they all flew away! LOL

I remember the day she got the boot from WS. She had only been here a short time - maybe 3 weeks, started a thread about all the leaks of info she had brought forward like the red paint, etc, and it was fascinating. Then another new poster came aboard who she did not want to share attention with, and so she got caught hacking into the profile accounts of posters here. By the time it was discovered, I was told my PM's were in another innocent posters profile account, and several posters found their files messed up. She wanted to know what we were saying to each other about this new poster. It was totally insane. "

August 2006: Loretta infiltrated Websleuths yet again with the intention of dropping one of her bombshells concerning a WS poster, but Tybee cut her off at the pass.

08-12-2006, 03:06 PM - tybee204
LMAO whats really funny (and a little pathetic) is she made time to go vote on the blook poll. LOL she bought her own blook. I guess if we had a review thread she would have written her own review as well. OH wait... lol thats what she uses Amazon for. Way to drive up those Poll numbers Loretta

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
08-24-2005, 10:50 AM – Celestrill II
I'm not a bully. I just don't take any crap on my property. There's a difference! As far as my opinions, that's not bullying, either. I can't insult you if you don't let me. My little jabs and jousts might be annoying to you, but they do not constitute bullying. If you can demonstrate one actual example of where I bullied someone - and you are not guilty of the same exact behavior - have at it. People in glass houses should not even think about throwing stones.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A special thanks to Tybee and Jbean for allowing me to publish selected material from WS.

The Scoreboard - Part 5

The folks at Websleuths dedicated a thread for discussion about Loretta Serrano, which is located in a private forum known as "The Parking Lot". Loretta is a repeat offender at trying to crash that forum, but the moderators are wise to her and consequently ban her from the community each time. After reading the following dialogue from an old "Peterson" thread, which veterans say is mild compared to what was deleted, you'll know why. You may even identify who the creature with the white stripe represents in the above picture.

Edited at the special request of Loretta Serrano for a reference to the thread The Underwater Search for Laci Peterson - The Rest of the Story, which was initiated by Celestrill II:

http://tinyurl.com/tnweu

12-18-2004, 02:24 PM - Jbean
This post tells me you are very sensitive. So,since there are no voice inflections here, I want to make sure you know I'm asking this sincerely and politely. How is it that you come by this information?

12-18-2004, 06:00 PM - Celestrill II
I just made it all up.

12-18-2004, 06:06 PM - Jbean
ohhh I guess there's something going on here to which I am naive. Thanks anyway.

12-18-2004, 06:34 PM - Celestrill II
Well, I don't mean to be flippant (ok, I do) but this is Websleuths. Sleuths being the optimal word here. It would seem rather obvious by now from where I got my information.

12-18-2004, 08:39 PM – Jbean
I guess I'm a lousy sleuth, Because I don't have a clue. Which is why I asked. But thank you for your kind post towards me. I really appreciate that. Have a nice Holiday.

12-18-2004, 07:43 PM – SieSie
JBean - don't feel bad, I don't have a clue who or what, either - but I do enjoy reading at the Misfittings site and this was a great installment that I'm anxiously waiting to finish. I'm not much of a sleuther, myself - I just read here and depend on the others who are more talented in that area.

12-18-2004, 08:41 PM – Jbean
Thanks for your kind words Sie Sie. If Celestrill's response was a taste of what I might find at Misfittings, no thanks. Insults are not my thing.

12-18-2004, 09:26 PM - Celestrill II
Obviously you did not read the article or you would know. Why you would not read it and then ask that question is either obtuse or indolent.

12-18-2004, 09:51 PM – Jbean
Celestrill, I'm not exactly sure what is happening. I'm sure you must be confusing me with someone else? Or perhaps we have different points of view on another topic and you are lashing out? I'm a respectful poster, I appreciate all different points of view. Agree or disagree, I never get personal.

Either which way, I just wondered how you came upon this information and that question has clearly offended you, which was not my intent and not how I operate. Your post extended an invitation to ask questions. I have read the article and I guess I am obtuse and indolent. I am not familiar with your work, I do not know who you are and perhaps that's where I have offended you. Good luck with your investigation.

12-18-2004, 09:58 PM - Celestrill II
Actually, that question does not offend me at all, but I am surprised that you cannot figure it out! Maybe another installment and the light bulb will go on!

12-19-2004, 12:06 AM – ostealthone
I have read Misfitting for about 20 months. Loretta is a gifted writer and seems to be a pro when it comes to narcissists and seemed to be right on when it came to the Peterson case. (I suspect she got most of her information from a former poster here at WebSleuths who is a member of law enforcement in California. That poster was very knowledgeable when she posted at WS, but had some problems with a former poster and that caused her to stop posting).

However, Loretta is tart-tongued if you disagree with her or question her in any way. "Misfit" is an appropriate adjective with which she chose to describe herself as she seems to have negative things to say about anyone who is accomplished. Her diatribes about Ken Jennings on Jeopardy, Ed Smart (father of Elizabeth Smart), and Ann Coulter - to name a few - are examples of people who have been gratuitously raked over the coals on her site. Her stories on her site of herself with regard to alcoholism and men are not very pretty. While she certainly has been an advocate for Laci, Laci is exactly the type of successful woman that Loretta and her misfits would have had fun dissing had Laci not been the victim of her monstrous husband.

Her replies to our regular posters tell you a great deal about her personality. Poster alert: Only address Loretta if you are bowing down and telling her how wonderful she is. Otherwise, get ready for a severe tongue-lashing!

12-19-2004, 11:07 AM – Celestrill II
When have I ever had anything to say about Ed Smart? Ken Jennings? We have joked about Ken, as people on here probably have, too. Ann Coulter - well, I make no apologies for disliking her, and I wrote an entire entry. GUILTY as CHARGED! The rest of your criticism is patently false and obviously inspired by a very jealous person. The only people who get severe PEN lashings are idiots, and since it's my site, I decide who are idiots. It's an idiot free zone. Unlike this place, obviously.

12-19-2004, 11:14 AM AM – Celestrill II
Totally uncalled for. I won't be back to defend myself to you. If you want to comment on my work, you can come to my place. Otherwise, take it to E-mail. I won't be answering this publicly anymore, since obviously some of you can't stand my presence. Seeya!

12-19-2004, 11:21 AM – thomasf1925
I'm trying to figure out why posters have been asked to edit their remarks on this thread when they were obviously right on the mark in their assessment? I never had much of an opinion way one or the other regarding Misfits before reading this thread. Things have changed. If I want sarcasm and name-calling - I know some middle-schoolers I can talk with.

12-19-2004, 11:24 AM – Celestrill II
No, you just don't get it, T - the posters decided to attack ME, not the work, not the research, not the factual issues, not the case. They didn't want to discuss the case, they just want to bash and criticize and vilify me. Why? What bearing does your personal or anyone's personal opinion of me (and a peripheral opinion at that) have ANYTHING whatsoever to do with the subject of this discussion? Do you have questions about the story? Do you have something constructive to add, or is this going to be a freakish cyber Pile-Up on Loretta? If so, I'm not interested.

Less than one month later on another thread...

01-07-2005, 07:23 PM – Celestrill II
Yeah, you do that! And your little minions who have crawled out from under the refrigerator can join you until the lights come back on in the morning and they scurry back to their crumbly little crevices.

01-09-2005, 11:51 PM – Celestrill II
Think you used enough stupid grins in that post? Obviously you didn't read it. Thankfully I am proud to maintain an idiot-free zone. Unlike this place.

Makes you wonder why Celestrill II didn't just stay in her "idiot-free zone"?

04-03-2005, 02:05 PM – Celestrill II
I think there is much to be said for having three categories: psychopaths, sociopaths, and malignant narcissists. All three leave a wake of destruction, but with differing degrees of violence, and with different types of victims. Psychopaths prey on strangers. Sociopaths prey on society. Narcisssits prey on their sources.

The Scoreboard - Part 4

"He wrote something stupid, a bunch of words that say something we don't agree with. It's only words and ideas, it's not like he beat someone up, he's not committing violence or hurting people, he's simply saying something offensive that we do not want to hear because we don't like it. If we suppress ideas we don't like, the proponents of those ideas will probably fester in secret societies and explode in double-plus ungood ways and we will like those results even less. If we allow people to see their ideas, and we ignore them, they've had their chance and they don't have to feel cheated about not getting exposure. Or if we really don't like their ideas and really need to keep them from convincing other people to believe in them, the answer is to tell people why and they'll learn.

But you can't just beat people up because you dislike their stupid opinion. If we go that route, then anyone who is willing to use force can suppress any opinion they don't like, and maybe support opinions we don't like. Then what you get is a society of brutality where it isn't the best ideas that are seen by others, it's only the ideas that have the most vicious thugs to back them up. And it becomes very hard for people to be willing to express any opinion if someone can just pop them one because they say something someone else doesn't like."

- Supervisor 246 in Paul Robinson's Instrument of God.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Most folks remember when Marlene Newell required membership to the 'Talk About It' forum. The misfits infiltrated her site, called themselves 'Secret Posting Gals', smuggled comments out, prepared a newsletter that ridiculed members of TAI, and circulated the final draft to people on Loretta Serrano's 'SPG' list.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In my defense, I only stop in a couple of times a day, now. They don't know who I am and probably will never figure it out. I've managed to "stay alive" for quite some time this incarnation! Eventually I'll set off an M-80 and get banned, and then I can always get back in. They haven't invented a public forum that I can't avoid the radar, yet. -Posted by loretta at January 31, 2004 08:02 PM

Apparently, Gnarlene plans to be in court every day. Oh goody! The possibilities are overwhelming. I have to do it so I don't get caught, of course. Maybe a cream pie? Kuffs warned me about federal property and all. -Posted by loretta at May 28, 2004 07:59 PM

Cream pie? I've not done a pie 'assassination' since - well never mind, gotta check the statute of limitations on that one, but it's been quite awhile. Still have the trench coat with the special pocket though. -Posted by Videodrone at May 28, 2004 11:51 PM

Hey Video! Yes, I might have to borrow it. Good to know. Thanks. I might have to use shaving cream. That kind of smarts. -Posted by loretta at May 28, 2004 11:53 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Loretta, can you do anything legally with them slandering your website? I'd say you need to take The Great Plumpkin down.... but my concern is that if she reaches the ground, she'll roll away.... like the infamous meatball, rolling out the door (in that children's song)... -Posted by feistyALgal at September 2, 2004 03:24 PM

Is there a link to TAI or SII to lurk without signing up...I'm curious....does that kill the cat...sorry Vero.....does that kill the mousie? You may delete Lo if you think they will assume you are sending spies....I just want to read and get educated LOL -Posted by Grandmaboo at September 2, 2004 08:08 PM

Oh, we already have covert "members" there, Grandmaboo! How do you think I get the skinny? I can't get in there anymore, and by the time I got my DSL hooked up at work to infiltrate the campgrounds again, they closed the membership. Muwahahaha You can see the Public Site at www.scottisinnocent.com. I refuse to give her a live link. -Posted by loretta at September 2, 2004 08:10 PM

I am glancing over at the asylum. They still don't accept the computer debunking or the sea weed (kelp!)...what is the point of discussint anything with such complete knuckleheads? -Posted by loretta at September 20, 2004 10:09 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BtS....thanks for all of your hard work and hours of enjoyment on my part...I would look forward to the SPG's and then wait for UGal to take them apart with her sharp scalpel wit....I also loved the injected comments and asides....I will miss you. But I believe in reincarnation if one's job isn't finished! Hint Hint.... -Posted by Grandmaboo at January 26, 2005 08:37 PM

Hey, I guess I'm one of the banned and proud now, I'm locked out of the Gnarled one's new forum :o) And to beat it all, I wasn't rude, just posted the truth. She cannot handle thruth. -Posted by sassyfrass at January 26, 2005 11:10 PM

Congratulations and welcome to the Banned and Proud, Sassy: LINK Crepe suzette. Baked Alaska! (kiss on right cheek...kiss on left cheek.) Don't forget your pin. -Posted by loretta at January 26, 2005 11:13 PM

Aw shucks~ thank you, thank you very much :o) -Posted by sassyfrass at January 26, 2005 11:14 PM

If you are not ashamed of your opinion, or if you can deal with challenges to your opinion, you don't have to hide from the public, or control everyone on your board, or weed out anyone who's got a better grasp of the facts. Obviously, gnarles can't fight a fair fight. She has to rig the board and control all the rules. Nobody with any power will take her seriously. She's a joke. Her mission is a joke. Her belief in Peterson's innocence is a joke. The only thing that is dead serious is her agenda: make money off this case, come hell or high water. It's so blatantly obvious, only the totally blind cannot see it. -Posted by loretta at February 19, 2005 09:57 AM

Or, drop the holy roller stuff and become the Gruella de Ville of this case. Be the evil, dark lord. Enlist the scum of the earth to become your followers. Those who are just pure evil. They're lurking around! I know for a fact. Get the slimeballs to join your forum in droves, promise them a public audience and open the forum up like the Brain Dead thread. The prince of darkness himself might take you by the hand! -Posted by loretta at February 19, 2005 10:30 AM

From: "Loretta S."
To: (Undisclosed Recipient)
Subject: INVITATION to the CHITHITTING the FAN
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:40:47 -0400

To all on the SPG mailing list:

You have been enjoying months and months and months and months and....you get the picture...of secret posting gal missives and, of course, the brilliant newsletters inspired by the Dibbles. Here is how you can repay the SPG for all her trouble. Send $5 a month for every month you have read the e-mails and you will be permitted to read the fallout when the SPG finally exposes her true identity.

JUST KIDDING - - HA! No - here's what you can do. JOIN TAC. If you can join there this weekend, ASAP, many of you can be in there when the SPG makes her dramatic exit. SPG is collaborating with several other people already members of TAC to see if they can be in the forum when the big announcement happens and to capture the reaction before it all goes POOF.

If you are already a member of TAC and you can send me your log-in and password for the SPG to use after the blowout, that would also help. You may think NitWit would be suddenly suspicious of a new surge in membership, but he's just not too bright. Obviously.

THANKS ALL!!
SPG

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Did I find humor, joy, entertainment in my participation of flogging publicly, the likes of Marlene Newell,
and any other individual that Loretta took issue with?

Yes, actually. Marlene Newell was a joke.
Be honest--you thought so, too!"

-Veronica Prior of ronnisrants.blogspot.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The price of freedom of religion, or of speech, or of the press,

is that we must put up with a good deal of rubbish."

-Robert H. Jackson

The Scoreboard - Part 3

Meanwhile back at the misfit reservation, Chief Loretta Serrano held a powwow signaling to her braves that she was on the warpath with the Court TV Confederacy. Thus a potlatch ritual commenced as members of the defense alliance applied war paint and donned their moccasins in preparation for battle.

I've decided to go down in flames over at CTV. I can reincarnate soon enough. I might as well earn my banning for a change. -Posted by loretta at May 27, 2004 09:35 PM

Boy o boy! I wanted to see what was going on so I clicked on your name on CTV, found the thread, and now I'm reading. GIVE 'EM HELL, Loretta. Kick their (rumproasts)! -Posted by feistyALgal at May 27, 2004 10:02 PM

heh. I can't believe I'm still alive over there. I'm running out of ways to insult Bruce and that wacko, rocks in her head - rockingfarm! -Posted by loretta at May 27, 2004 10:33 PM

I just visited and saw you were swinging your insults w/both fists, Lo. You WILL go down in flames but it's worth it! -Posted by Astrologer at May 27, 2004 10:40 PM

Going down in flames at Court TV...

05-28-2004 @ 02:36 AM - Originally posted by texdude II
Celestrill is one of the most intelligent posters on these boards, so your nastiness is COMPLETELY unjustified.

05-28-2004 @ 03:05 AM - Originally posted by Celestrill U2
Shut up. Stupid hula ho.

05-28-2004 @ 03:13 AM - Originally posted by Celestrill U2
Explain THIS - you impotent limp wee wee.

05-28-2004 @ 03:30 AM - Originally posted by Celestrill U2
Oh take it to your mommy, you crybaby wanker with the comparable teeny tiney itsy bitsy widdle wee wee. This little piggy went wee wee wee wee...

Brave Barbara returns from a reconnaissance mission:

I expect it to get worse over there before it gets better. You can almost sense the desperation in the inmate supporters. It seems to be a mirror of their leader, MG. The comments being made right now are so crazy and outrageous, you can't even really respond to it. -Posted by Barbara at May 28, 2004 08:35 AM

I think it will be fascinating to watch. I wonder if they will keep spinning until they fall off the face of the earth, ah, er board. -Posted by karenancy at May 28, 2004 08:37 AM

You guessed it! I overslept until 9:15, when my phone woke me up...it was my boss! HA! I told him I was running just a tad late! Thank goodness he is a forgiving sort! So, now I am sort of awake, but behinder and behinder at work. This afternoon the boys (that's what I call bob and steve) are going out for an installation, so I'll be able to catch up and get things squared away before the holiday.

I haven't checked PTV to see if I was banned or not. I was so juvenile yesterday, but it was a lot of fun. It's good every once in awhile to let off some steam on those morons, even if it is a bit crass. sue me! -Posted by loretta at May 28, 2004 12:15 PM

I am back as Celestril Deux, and I spelled my nic wrong! Need more sleep! Not that I'll last long, but hey. -Posted by loretta at May 28, 2004 12:48 PM

I see that last night a few sane people over on PTV let that moron, "railsandwind" (the latest incarnation of Modesto Falls/irongates/3rd house/etc.) have it between the eyes about her mumbo jumbo malarky. I missed that, darn it. -Posted by loretta at May 28, 2004 01:33 PM

Whoooah! I got banned already. And I didn't even break any rules! That's the fastest banning on record for me! Ponder had that happen to her every time, too. I might have to change my nic, after all. Dang. Barbara, did you come up with any suggestions? I'd better keep it on the L-D so that none of the little crybabies figures it out right away. -Posted by loretta at May 28, 2004 02:28 PM

heh heh. I am the stealth poster now. Nobody will ever know it's me!! heh heh -Posted by loretta at May 28, 2004 02:44 PM

OMG Loretta...you couldn't hide yourself if you were wearing camoflouge in a jungle!!!! hehehehe! -Posted by Monica at May 28, 2004 04:17 PM

Oh, I could if I really tried, Monica! I have done it for months on the SII "Talk about it" forum. Nitwit and Gnarlene have no idea it's me. Of course, they are pretty stupid, I'll grant you that. Some of the excerebrose in the BS thread won't recognize me, either. Too busy gazing at their navels. -Posted by loretta at May 28, 2004 04:24 PM

Whoa. I have to go! The day goes fast when you come to work at 10 AM!
I'll be bach. I don't know which is worse over at PTV, their laziness, or their stupidity. -Posted by loretta at May 28, 2004 04:49 PM

I am the queen of the subtle insult tonight. Most of 'em don't even realize I'm insulting them. Hey Rose, if you are following the braind dead board, I have had to change my nic to a stealth one! I think you'll figure out who I am rather easily. -Posted by loretta at May 28, 2004 06:49 PM

Lo~ I figured out who you were on your first post! LMAO, you're killing me over there - and you're right, they have NO clue who you are. Keep up the good work, I'm reading! heh -Posted by Rose at May 28, 2004 07:20 PM

Good old MollyJ the snotty little dweller is on board. Despite her protests to the contrary at CTV. HA! It's so easy to expose these lying twits. Why can't they have a little imagination? -Posted by loretta at May 28, 2004 08:06 PM

Freaking losers. -Posted by loretta at May 28, 2004 08:10

I think everybody has their nemesis, but Speidel just irks me to no end! He definitely knows how to bring out the worst in me! And then he acts like we're trying to lock down the thread! Who started it????? -Posted by Barbara at May 28, 2004 09:54 PM

Oh so many places to traipse and gallivant, so little time. -Posted by karenancy at May 28, 2004 09:57 PM

Another day, another complaint!

It never ceases to amaze me how many of the "didn'tdidits" want to accuse the sane and sensible of doing things just to cause trouble and get the AW2B threads closed down, and then they create anonymous nics for the sole reason of coming in to cause trouble on GTV. (If you're reading GTV, you'll see what I'm talking about immediately) -Posted by Barbara at May 29, 2004 09:05 AM

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
06-21-2004 @03:35 PM - Originally posted by LoisLane
Is Celestrill around any more? She/he claimed to have inside sources?

Yes ... Her new name is Dora Explora (SP)

Serendipity

The Scoreboard - Part 2

One month after the scuffle with members of Detective Talk, Loretta Serrano set her sights on another message board, namely, Court TV. Witnesses say that she would often be logged onto Court TV after announcing plans of spending the day at the pool or library with her children. Eventually other misfits enthusiastically joined Loretta in her forays referring to their simultaneous sojourns between CTV and TAI as "camping expeditions".

Court TV Highlights:

08-23-2003 @ 02:25 AM - Originally posted by Celestrill
Hey Blue, please empty your PM box. Thanks!

01-20-2004 @ 02:05 AM - Originally posted by Celestrill
People, People, People. Have I ever misled you.... JohnT.... I am not coming back to this thread! You and Checkers are on your own.

02-05-2004 @ 04:29 AM - Originally posted by Celestrill
Some simply cannot type. Or spell.

03-01-2004 @ 12:04 AM - Originally posted by Celestrill II
Would you care to support that allegation with some proof? This is scurillous [sic] and usubstantiated [sic]. If you never go there, how would you know?

03-01-2004 @ 02:17 AM - Originally posted by designer5
Celestrill says she's writing a book about the Laci Peterson case when it is over.

03-03-2004 @ 02:02 AM - Originally posted by Celestrill II
Perhaps you should look up the spelling, for a start: HYPOCRITE. And I think it was I who said unfriendly things about you.

03-03-2004 @ 04:05 AM - Originally posted by Unknown poster
Questinator - 3/3/04 @ 04:03 AM This person is on your Ignore List.
DingEBrat - 3/3/04 @ 04:04 AM This person is on your Ignore List.
Celestrill II - 3/3/04 @ 04:04 AM This person is on your Ignore List.

03-05-2004 @ 03:52 AM – Originally posted by Unknown poster
DingEBrat - 3/5/04 @ 03:45 AM This person is on your Ignore List.
Celestrill II - 3/5/04 @ 03:45 AM This person is on your Ignore List.

03-06-2004 @ 12:36 AM - Originally posted by Celestrill II
If somebody makes a spelling or grammatical mistake in a post and you quote them, you place [sic] after the misspelled word (or misused word, or...

03-08-2004 @ 05:35 PM - Originally posted by Celestrill Two
read your post, and many of your previous posts where you justify everything he does. I don't have any use for justifying indefensible behavior.

03-09-2004 @ 04:39 AM - Originally posted by Celestrill Two
And I am such a boring and terrible writer I have had so far a Total of 289,156 visitors since the blog opened...

03-18-2004 @ 05:53 PM - Originally posted by Celestrill Two
No, I think this discussion is about to be severely censored, as it was on WebSleuths when I discussed it over there.

03-22-2004 @06:59 PM - Originally posted by VictorianRose
Celestrill Two: I've lived in both the Modesto area and now the Bay area, and you have done neither. What in the world are you talking about,

03-30-2004 @ 03:01 AM - Originally posted by Celestrill Two
No, I never said I sold boats. Link, please? Selective and faulty memories are a sign of dementia. Perhaps some ginko biloba will do the trick....

04-03-2004 @ 07:13 PM - Originally posted by Celestrill Too
The difference is, I'm not anonymous. I publish what I know, what I hear, for all the world to see. I am not hiding behind a nickname or handle...

04-05-2004 @ 05:42 PM - Originally posted by Celestrill Too
I'd rather be a narcissist than an idiot. As it is, I am neither.

04-08-2004 @ 08:19 AM - Originally posted by Celestrill 2
It's not normal around here. It's SISSY. I expect Geragos to be raising a sissy. What else could he raise?

04-08-2004 @ 02:15 PM - Originally posted by Celestrill 2
When you are 80 proof like you are most nights, Tara, I don't pay much attention to you. Sober up. Maybe then you'll be a better mother and...

04-08-2004 @ 02:52 PM - Originally posted by factsonly
Me neither, I find Celestrill two or 2 or whatever disgusting along with those who defended her last night.

04-10-2004 @ 04:49 AM - Originally posted by Unknown poster
If this keeps up, we're going to have to re-name this thread. "All About Celestrill"

04-12-2004 @ 05:59 AM - Originally posted by Angelicmessages
Celestrill do you ever post anything relevant to this case? So far all you do is bitch

04-12-2004 @ 06:34 AM - Originally posted by Celestrill 2
Have you ever heard of a comma?

04-18-2004 @ 05:22 AM - Originally posted by Celestrill 2
your - possessive (your poor grammar)
their - possessive (their poor grammar)

04-18-2004 @ 05:32 AM - Originally posted by Celestrill 2
care less - two words meaning caring about something less
careless - one word meaning sloppy

04-18-2004 @ 05:36 AM - Originally posted by Celestrill 2
Dreamed, not dreamt. Affectation, perhaps?

04-18-2004 @ 06:45 AM - Originally posted by Celestrill 2
Might I remind you this is America and we are in the 21st century. Archaic and affected grammar are generally utilized by the pathologically insecure.

04-18-2004 @ 06:47 AM - Originally posted by Celestrill 2
Typos are forgivable. Consistently bad grammar and atrocious spelling are signs of stupidity.

04-24-2004 @ 04:26 AM - Originally posted by Celestrill 2
I have had sneezes last longer than my posts on this thread.

04-25-2004 @ 05:29 PM - Originally posted by Celestrill 2
I think he is not only INCOMPETENT, but he is also EVIL. Geragos has his own agenda, and it has nothing to do with a vigorous defense for his...

04-28-2004 @ 06:49 AM - Originally posted by Celestrill 2
Molly is a ghoul. That means she cannot die a slow death. She is already dead. Metaphorically speaking, of course.

04-28-2004 @ 07:12 AM - Originally posted by Celestrill 2
M. K., like "treetime" and a few others are just ex-mifits with an axe to grind. I probably banned her last year and she is still smarting.

04-30-2004 @ 04:14 PM - Originally posted by Celestrill 2X
According to neighbors who e-mailed me last January, the house smelled like bleach.

05-01-2004 @ 09:25 AM - originally posted by PALEandWAN
I see the Siamese twin trolls, Morrigan and Celestrill, are here again so I will take my leave. What bores they are.

05-01-2004 @ 02:55 PM - Originally posted by Celestrill 2X
Yeah, right. That wingnut Muna is sending the letters! I heard he is dying, anyway. Might as well go out with a bang.

05-11-2004 @10:17 PM - Originally posted by Celestrill 2U
Well, let's see now, how many nics have you had? Should we really GO THERE??? I think not!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Celestrill-> Celestrill II-> Celestrill Two-> Celestrill Too->

Celestrill 2-> Celestrill 2x-> Celestrill 2U -> Celestrill U2

One thread!

The Scoreboard - Part 1

According to "who is" misfitting.com was created on January 16, 2003. Within three months Loretta Serrano and her misfit posters were immersed in a bitter conflict with members of "Detective Talk". An interesting aspect of the feud is that Loretta Serrano objected to having her personal information posted publicly!

This is my final request. Remove the e-mail information of my readers. Remove the string that includes my personal information. Remove the pictures and the articles I wrote that are posted on this site without permission. Consider this my formal request. 403 can trace my IP. He knows this is me. Loretta

You all are now witnesses to my formal request for this information to be removed. They have violated copyright, and are considered stalkers by the law. If this information does not get removed promptly, I can press formal charges. Thank you, and let's just let this matter go, for now. I have consulted with the authorities and I will let them handle if from there. So, let's change the subject. -Posted by Loretta at April 1, 2003 12:48 PM

To: admin@detectivetalk.com
From: loretta s retzq@misfitting.com

Dear Sir: Please consider this my formal request for the removal of forum topics that include personal information about me that is considered harassment: my DL information, my pictures, and any copyrighted violations of my images, articles, and comments. The domain information is public domain, and I am not concerned about that. I have been advised to request your cooperation in this matter. I appreciate your prompt response. -Thank you, Loretta at Misfiting.com

I have now done my legal obligation to ask them to voluntarily cease and desist and to remove the offending material. They have 24 hours. -Posted by Loretta at April 1, 2003 01:12 PM

I consider this a very good learning experience. I have learned a lot from LE and what is and is not legal on the internet these past few days! By the way, using someone else's e-mail address to subscribe to newletters, pornographic sites, or other unsolicited material is also illegal. -Posted by Loretta at April 1, 2003 01:16 PM

It's really unbelievable that a DL # would be posted. That IS identity theft. A police report should be made ASAP. ann -Posted by dingbat at April 1, 2003 01:51 PM

Note: Identity theft occurs when somebody steals your name and other personal information for fraudulent purposes. Identity theft is a form of identity crime (where somebody uses a false identity to commit a crime).

Whooo Hooo!!! We found the host!!! I have contacted them and they gave me all the information I need to report the abuse, and they are going to handle it on their end as well. -Posted by Loretta at April 1, 2003 01:59 PM

The IP address is: 6x.2xx.2x.4x That is the IP to which you refer when reporting abuse. -Posted by Loretta at April 1, 2003 02:28 PM

I am still browsing the DT site. I did read where 'elusive' posted to Loreta that she WOULD remove all emails if Loretta would remove the posts made on misfittting about her (elusive). seemed reasonable enough to me as an outside observer. I did notice Loretta does have posts on here about 'elusive'. Loretta? seems to me the ball is in your court now. 'elusive' didn't have anything else 'personal' on there about you or any members here that I could find.

In all fairness to both sides and in trying to stay neutral here, I did see several posts from Loretta on that site that were directed towards 'elusive' that were name calling. Especially one post particular post to 'elusive' that had a list of names Loretta called her. and 'elusve', at least to me, seems to be willing to remove anything Loretta finds threatning or personal. jmho (just commenting about my personal observations) -Posted by a friend at April 1, 2003 02:32 PM

Elusive is not the problem. The problem is the copyright violations: sunflower, puhleease, greekgirl, ocean; the problem is the DL information: sunflower. The problem is the picture: sunflower. I don't think elusive is doing anything but piling on. And there is nothing I have posted on here about her, except the "HEADS UP" I got from the moderator at "Wethinkscottpetersondidit" at the Yahoo forum. That's it. -Posted by Loretta at April 1, 2003 02:43 PM

Friend- We may have stooped to their level at times, and I am embarrassed to admit that I have done it, but not on their site. We didn't post DL#s or addresses or phone #s. I have seen EB call her "whoretta" and "lowretta," if you want specific examples of name calling. -Posted by lex at April 1, 2003 02:45 PM

Ok, maybe I missed it but I thought her email was on here too, unless it was taken down by now. was only trying to remain neutral and maybe help mend this as an outside observer. there was a post by elusve asking you to remove the yahoo comments and email address. That was what I saw and didnt know if you read that yet. she said she would remove the emails but wanted her info off here to. all I was saying was that seemed reasonalbe to me. -Posted by a friend at April 1, 2003 02:48 PM

I think the yahoo info can be posted here, since it IS a warning to others about her past behavior. I am the one that posted her e-mail, only after she posted all of ours. I asked Loretta to remove it once my head cleared. I was mad, and I think I had a right to be. I was merely giving people the same access to her, that she had given others to us. -Posted by lex at April 1, 2003 02:52 PM

I was just saying the 'eb' did not do the lisence number or personal information posts. she did get in a word war with loreta but was just saying that it sounded reasonable to ask that the yahoo comments be removed and she was saying she was willing to remove comments or emails there to. I dont know that sunflower would do that. I just thought it was an offer that was reasonalbe. -Posted by a friend at April 1, 2003 02:55 PM

I agree about the lisence number. that was not right. i did read that the administrater saw a lot of the same ip numbers for the new members that posed as misfits. it wasn't right but at least if it was me i would bend to make peace and then focus on the illegal stuff and the yahoo was heresay and not illegal to ask loreta to take it down on here. -Posted by a friend at April 1, 2003 03:00 PM

Elusive welched on her deal. I removed all the e-mails from this site, after she asked me to and agreed to remove the e-mails of the readers of this site from DT. She didn't do it. Why should I believe any of their demands, now? The only way they will be satisfied is if you all leave, and I take down the site. I will not negotiate with terrorists. -Posted by Loretta at April 1, 2003 03:42 PM

i just read your post loreta and mabey i am wrong but you said you would not remove her yahoo comment and that was part of her request. -Posted by a friend at April 1, 2003 03:45 PM

I removed the post from yesterday's comment string regarding EB's involvement in Yahoo. Now, watch to see if they remove the e-mails and other derogatory stuff. Don't hold your breath. -Posted by Loretta at April 1, 2003 03:56 PM

wow just took forever to find this but i did. i saw a post that i think was the one 'eb' referred to and wanted removed but it was still here loreta (dont be mad i am just trying to help you here) and if i can find it so can the people from the other site to. maybe if you delete that it would fix things.

i wont re post it here so you wont have more work to do by deleting my post to but i did post the date and time so you can find it easyer (yahoo message about 'eb' Posted by Loretta at March 31, 2003 09:51 PM ) hope that helps you so you dont have to search for it. -Posted by a friend at April 1, 2003 04:07 PM

I was trying to help both sides and stayed nuetral and still am. good luck with everything lorreta and i dont personally think your picture is bad at all and you dont look old either so just try to ignore mean comments like that if you can. -Posted by a friend at April 1, 2003 04:36 PM

I received this e-mail from Robert Cortez, administrator of Detective Talk, regarding my request to remove the offensive material:

I will do as you wish if: You publicly appologize (on my board and yours) for callimg my users and I "terrorists". You publicly applogize (on my board and yours) for following your ex-users to my board and then harrasing them for leaving your board. You point out which items on my board you have a problem with.

I wrote him back, offering to apologize to any of my former posters if I offended them, but not to apologize to any of his forum who abused us or terrorized us. I told him to delete most of the General Discussion Forum. When I went in to apologize on his site to my former posters, I found that I was banned from the site. So, how can I apologize publicly on his site, if I can't get in?Interesting. -Posted by Loretta at April 1, 2003 06:52 PM

URGENT MESSAGE
The administrator at DT (Mr. Cortez) just e-mailed me to inform me that he did not ban me. In fact, his site has been hacked. I would like to publicly thank Mr. Cortez for removing the offensive material prior to the hacking. I was only aware of it through reader e-mail, and never had a chance to see it for myself. I don't know if this argument caused this, or if anyone here could hack their way out of a pocket calculator (which I told him I certainly couldn't) but I apologize to everyone on that site that used to post here if you were offended by any of my postings on that site. What I say in my own livingroom I will not defend. I am not happy that this happened. -Posted by Loretta at April 1, 2003 07:06 PM

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well, I'm glad to see I'm one of your main topics of discussion this evening. I find it hilarious to read some of the speculation about me. It's funny to see things written about me that are flat out not true. I especially like the post on this site, talking about how I'm unreasonable, and probably wouldn't remove a post, and agree to a truce, etc... It's odd that you can all say this, but NOT A SINGLE one of you sent me a message asking me to remove anything, not even you Loretta. If you REALLY wanted it removed, why didn't you just ask? I'm not an unreasonable person by any means. However, I don't appreciate the behavior that you and your members were engaging in on our site, just as I'm sure you didn't appreciate ours either.

This all started over a simple post by one of our members, who in turn immediately set the record straight with you. But, for some reason, we continued to have harrassment on our site over it. You yourself continued to come back as well, posting snide comments. How did you ever expect anything to stop, if you wouldn't quit coming over there stirring up trouble? There are plenty of people who can attest to this, including several of your own members.

And everyone wants to go on and on about posting so-called personal information. Anything posted on that site was public information, obtained by a simple search online. I'm definitely no computer expert, yet I was able to obtain a lot of information by a few simple searches that any Joe Blow off the street could also do. No information I had was priveleged in any way. There are a ton of public information sites on the web, accessible to anyone. I guess if you all have such a problem with it, you should contact your lawmakers to keep information like that off the internet, and not complain about me getting it. You have the exact same opportunities as I do, simply by the fact you are on the internet.

I would also like to add that our members were not the first ones in posting so-called personal information. Loretta took it upon herself to post the registration for DT for all to see, which included the website administrators name, phone, address, etc... Why is it OK for you to do this, but when it is done back to you, you get upset about it? I'm not trying to be rude, just merely an observation.

It seems obvious that our site was hacked by someone associated with this site. I mean, there was a reward posted by this site in obtaining DT information! If that's not a confession, I don't know what is. If you were truly turning it over to the authorities, then why were you soliciting this information? Wouldn't that be a job for the "authorities?"

As I stated before... if anyone had a problem with me, I was available every day to receive messages, but not a single one of you sent me a thing. But now... you're all on here talking about how difficult I am, etc... I think it's quite a double standard that you people did to us what was done to you, but now you all want to cry uncle!

I'm not posting this message as harrassment, this is truly my opinion, and it shouldn't be deleted. But, if it's deleted... it just goes to show the narrow mindedness that has been expressed plenty of times before. That's my two cents worth, take it how you like.

-Posted by SUNFLWER at April 2, 2003 01:49 AM